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What is astonishing is that this interview was carried out in season 20/21, but it could not be more timely.
In the last of a high-adrenaline series of fixtures over the past ten days, which included a two-legged tie against Atalanta Bergamo, in which BVB failed to progress to the last 16 of the Champions League, thanks mainly to a poor away performance. In the league, a draw away at RB Leipzig, in which a fair bit of luck and Dario Silva’s first league goal of the season came to the rescue, was far from convincing.
In the final game of what has been a highly gruelling series for Borussia Dortmund, tomorrow, the 8-time Deutsche Meister hosted FC Bayern, losing 3-2 at the Westfalenstadion.
Firstly, what do Borussia Dortmund need to do, essentially, to catch up with Bayern Munich? Apart from the obvious financial gulf between the clubs, what are the weak points at the club? What have been the keys to BVB’s inconsistency in recent seasons?
“It would be genuinely beneficial for the league if Dortmund were to win the Meisterschaft. The last couple of seasons have been a genuine chance lost for BVB. They have had real opportunities with the quality of the squad [in 22/23, BVB lost out on the final game of the season against Mainz 05 only on goal difference]. Even as someone who looks at Dortmund with no real emotion, I find it annoying when a team with so much potential fails to deliver it on the pitch. It makes me, like most fans in Germany, frustrated.”
BVB have had some top international coaches since Jürgen Klopp left in 2015, but have been unable to claim their 9th title. Who would you see as a potential coach for Borussia Dortmund that could bring the success back? How about bringing in a coach from the Premier League?
“It probably would, in theory, work with an English-speaking manager, but clubs in Germany ideally want somebody German-speaking because they can relate to them better, that’s the problem with appointing an English-speaking coach, like someone from the Premier League. But there’s an extra problem, which is probably bigger than the language issue, which is that if you get a non-German coach, for example, Mauricio Pochettino, who has been mentioned in connection with the club, he will come with five or six ‘mini Pochettinos’ who will take up all the strategic coaching positions. And I think for a club like Dortmund, where the leadership want to be very much in touch with what’s happening, it’s a very uncomfortable place to be in when you just don’t know really what’s happening in the dressing room. Also, financially its a big risk to hire all these people if it doesn’t work out. You have huge payouts to make, which are more of a challenge for a club like BVB.”
However, it has worked at Bayern with Pep Guardiola or Carlo Ancelotti, who won 10 titles with Bayern between them, their success surely proves that it can work.
“Under Pep Guardiola, they had Bayern playing beautiful football. But also, I am aware that there was a lot of conflict behind the scenes, as outlined, and the club felt it very difficult to deal with him because they didn’t have those direct lines of communication that Bayern are used to, and I think the same would be true of Dortmund.”
Does a coach who coaches a team like BVB actually need to have won silverware?
“I think the answer is no, he doesn’t have to have won titles, but it makes it easier for him to be seen as a winner. I mean, take Thomas Tuchel, I think he could have worked out with BVB, and he did win the Pokal in 2017, but it was short-lived. Silverware backs up your status as a coach. It makes it easier to sell yourself to the dressing room to find acceptance as a coach, but it’s not a must.”
Surely Julian Nagelsmann would have to be another interesting option for BVB?
“Yes, Nagelsmann is for sure a candidate who has excellent motivational skills, but of course, getting him now will be more of a challenge, perhaps too much for BVB, although Dortmund is always one of the top jobs in the Bundesliga.”
BVB do not have the depth of quality to rotate as it stands at this time. Bayern have a higher quality in the side, so they have almost one good replacement for each player, which is the key issue, they cannot successfully rotate consistently. What is your view?
“I think it’s a combination of factors, of course, man for man, Munich are consistently stronger. They have, for example, in Alphonso Davies, one of the best left-backs in the world, or in Joshua Kimmich, one of the most versatile defensive players, there’s just much more quality in the side than at Dortmund. But does that stop Dortmund from winning against clubs like Augsburg? Does that stop Dortmund from regularly conceding goals to smaller sides in the league? BVB has consistently had deeper issues, like a lack of stability, which arise out of technical problems, including a lack of depth. Bayern’s way of playing means they defend with a very high line. They have this insane pressing game, which makes it very difficult for opposition teams to play against, not just for BVB. Let me say this clearly: BVB are by far the second-best squad in Germany, but they need a coach that gets consistently more than 80% out of their potential on a regular basis to get close to winning the Meisterschaft.”
What would be the two key positions that you would suggest BVB need to hire for?
“Dortmund’s business model is buying Bellinghams and Haalands, top talents for relatively little money, building them up into superstars, and then selling them and then starting again. I think that takes you quite far, but no further. it is difficult to challenge Bayern, who are a destination club. Dortmund has begun to somewhat change this, but unless that way of business changes and unless Dortmund are no longer forced to sell players, I don’t see the balance of power changing in the Bundesliga. BVB need to become more of a destination club to dominate the Bundesliga.
“Quite frankly It’s not an easy situation for BVB, but that’s the challenge….”
Munich-born Raphael Honigstein is a sports journalist who is the leading commentator on German football on programmes including BT Sport’s Sunday Night Football, and The Friday Football Show on Setanta, and on Setanta Sports News. He has also worked as a German football expert for Sky Sports and appears on the football show ESPN Soccernet Press Pass. He is also a regular for the BBC and on BBC Radio 5 Live. Honigstein is also the author of a number of football books including: Englischer Fussball: A German View of Our Beautiful Game which was translated by Jamie Bulloch and published by Yellow Jersey Press in 2008, and Das Reboot: How German Football Reinvented Itself and Conquered the World, also published by Yellow Jersey Press in 2015 which charts the return of German football from the international wilderness of the late 1990s to victory at the 2014 FIFA World Cup in Brazil. His latest book is Bring the Noise, also published by Yellow Jersey Press in 2017, which tells the definitive story of Jürgen Klopp’s career.